anyone for $70k 133m, and 102m Loft design house

I am actively looking for a builder to see if anyone can do a C3 design Loft design house for $60,000 to $80,000...Ground floor is 133m square, second floor is 102m square...Hope to buy the official plans soon...Have block options in the metro around the $130,000-$145000 mark...

Have an advert for builders to quote on this @ HERE...so please any builders out there let us know if you can do this...

Go! Go! Go! if we are to use the government grants ($14,000-$21,000...probably too late for $21,000 now) this year, and reduce our weekly rent payment of $355 a week to a mortgage payment of less than $200 a week by 2010...
If of course we can find a builder to build for $60,000-80,000...
Otherwise the only other options are to try a block in the country, (lots of travel for me to work unless I make it big on the stock market,) or try the banks again next year which I suspect will mean higher land costs, and the same or similiar loan amount, maybe even less or no loan amount at all...
So I am thinking now is the time to try and go for it if it is still possible...

here is the text from my ad on serviceseeking which is HERE;


-Brick house 3-4 bedrooms
-A-frame style roof, 2 storey house.
-needs to comfortably fit on a 280m square block
i.e. about 133m square for ground floor,
102m square for the second floor
-I have a detailed sketch of plans, and am about to buy official plans from an architect.
-build for $60000- $75,000
-location will be near kwinana in an established home estate
-need work to start asap, by November 2009 at the latest
-completion date asap, but flexible with that so long as it is finished some time in 2010.

dirt cheap or wait awhile seems to be the options

Well we have made some progress in the loan approval stakes.
We have got a finance figure from a lender. It is wayyyyyy! too low...unless I wanna buy as block in Beverley for $35,000, or Mullewa for $19,000 or Northampton for $60,000...
Or we could always goto Yarloop for $62,000 right next door to the Alcoa Wagerup refinery that Erin Brockovich has come out from USA to see...Free blood noses diahorrea and headaches, cancer etc come with this land package...
Or if I can somehow find someone to build a house for $60,000 to $80,000 (Peter Lees design maybe, perhaps a very understanding builder...then maybe one of the $141,000 blocks that have been released this week (a bit small at 287m square but might do the job)...
Basically feeling a bit discouraged...so we have a few months to try and work with what we have so far, or try and save $15,000 to $40,000 (very hard to impossible) and/or try and find another lender that will give us a better go...
Be very easy to just crawl under a rock and carry on renting but I can't afford to throw in the towel just yet...

checking out the standard going rates as of july 2009

I still think Peter Lees designs could be the best value for money, but its a tricky option for various reasons...
If I just look at the standard options land can be bought for $150,000 to $260,000 in good locations, and I think maybe a $165,000 block of land could be a good option with a $115,000 house = $280,000 total ...or a house and land packgage for $250,000 to $290,000...
Big problem is loan amount...will it be enough...

then of course cheaper options to be found in Mandurah/meadow springs, Byford,Armadale, and maybe Ellenbrook, or Wattle Grove, High Wycombe, but I am not that keen on the Mandurah,Byford,Armadale options as too far from the city, same applies to Ellenbrook to a lesser extent...Wattle Grove and High Wycombe to far from my parent5s I think, and not the best locations..., but then again might end up being a good way to go... then there is cloverdale/queens park/kenwick/east cannington (high crime rate, airliner jets landing on your head/taking off at all hours, but very close to city... kwinana, port kennedy secret harbour, harrington waters...most of these places I have read meters in so I have seen them all firsthand... Bassendean, south guildford, or north of the river options, like ridgewood/butler clarkson, landsdale/madely/darch...

Going back south of the river piara waters/southern river probably too costly...Baldivis heaps of cheap land, but its a long way from Perth City, might end up having to go there to get the cost down, increased daily driving time in exchange for a cheaper block price?

Guess there is always the possibility of upgrading finance later, but if thats necessary maybe wait a bit longer before taking the plunge... my fear is the longer we wait the more rent prices, and land costs are going to skyrocket unbelievably...

Had another look at some of the best house and land packagaes and house prices around in good locations , here is some of the info currently floating around on the net;
As of 22nd July 2009;

http://www.aussielivinghomes.com.au/
282K wellard
http://www.goodlifehomes.com.au/landPackages.php?page=2
293K wellard
http://www.easystarthomes.com.au/pages/southern.html
298K wellard
http://www.easystarthomes.com.au/pages/design.html

http://www.wahousingcentre.com.au/Specials/menu-id-5/Page-3.html
Oasis 113K???
$25,500 in total...(not just 21,000)

http://www.firsthomebuyersdirect.com.au/faq.html
house n land from 249K
bertram beeliar aubin grove

smart move/blueprint
http://www.smartmovehomes.com.au/site/awdep.asp?dealer=57581&depnum=12572
from 272K

http://homestart.net.au/about.asp
from 274K?

http://www.homebuyers.com.au/go/home-designs
from 283K
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=8002832&f=30&p=10&t=nhm&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=37266815&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1248194972
from 115K??? The Great Escape Range

http://www.affordableliving.com.au/

http://www.impressions.net.au/dynamic.asp?iDynamicPageID=1
from 318K aubin grove

http://www.ventura-homes.com.au/home/liveland
305K baldivis

http://www.mydomainhome.com.au/-The-Bayview-.html
106K !!! ???

http://www.mydomainhome.com.au/IMG/pdf/Belgravia_Estate_Bertram.pdf
296K

the parade 126K ???

Cheaper house options;
1. Peter lees designed a-frame/loft house...
Perhaps a mud-brick one or just a standard limestone brick one...

2. timber house
http://www.cedarhomes.com.au/
from 96K?

3. Stumped queenslander style house...
http://www.totalhomeframes.com.au/
http://www.totalhomeframes.com.au/pdf/Getaway_Loft.pdf

4. transportable house
http://www.trhomes.com.au/bushland.php
the best http://www.fleetwood.com.au/manufacturing/transport.htm
http://www.cavalierwa.com.au/new/index.html

5. build your own kit house.
Ross Squire homes have kits around the $60-$70,000 mark, but how much would construction cost in time money and effort!
Remember from my Dad's effort on the Mandurah house how much hard yakka that involves...


Of course the owner builder route maybe more difficult to get a loan for, and its fraught with a stack of risks, and tricky issues to deal with...although the potential cost and cashflow gains could be massive...

Mostly this is just an attempt to get all the good options in place so we are ready to go if a decent loan amount is possible...not sure if it is yet...Otherwise will have to repeat the process again in a year or two,three...

getting nervous and reasons to build now

Well I am starting to get very very nervous about this whole chase a home loan, thing. Wondering if Kathryn and I are making the right decision to try and land a home loan "big fish" now? or should we just give it a big kiss like Rex Hunt and throw it back into the sea to catch again at a better time...to be honest I am not sure, I'm a little scared we wont get what we want, or that something will go wrong and we lose everything, or we just get so preoccupied trying to pay mortgage we forget to live...but continuing to rent doesnt look very attractive either , so I think going after the home loan full speed ahed now is the way, although I still have some nervousness about it...

State Government is keen to get people to build, and have a heap of reasons why they think ""now is a good time to build", of course they have a vested interest (doesnt everyone) in stimulating econony=more revenue=they look better in government...
Anyway reasons to build here...

Big concern in my mind appeared today, because from what I read the shared equity scheme only applies to established houses and "house & land packages", if so that may mean we are a lot more restricted than i thought, cos it would mean we cant choose out block and house design..., we are stuck with a house and land package from homebuyers, homestart,good life, easystart etc etc...and given how low our loan is likely to be, that could restrict what locations we can go into by wayyyy to much...But then again maybe I have just misread a poorly worded brochure...

****UPDATE 26/6/09 checked with keystart, and I was wrong we can choose our own land and a separate builder as long as we build on it straightaway (possibly have to finish or start within 12 months...)..so its ok.....******

Hopefully we can find good guidance from God at this time, and good things can occur...

slow process and dirt cheap houses...

Looks like getting a loan is going to take a lot longer than I expected.
Its looking like 9 weeks instead of the expected 1-3 weeks...
Just seems silly that it takes 1-2 months ! or more, just to fill out some paperwork and get a yay or nay...mad,mad,world...which means one gets to be anxious and nervous for several months re finance approval or not, before the choosing a house and location biz even starts...
Of course if we get stuck with a low loan amount, and house price has to be rock bottom...maybe a transportable house for a few years until we can afford to upgrade might be the way to go...
something like; the Steelbuilt Kit Homes maybe or Cavalier WA's transportables, and park homes or
Fleetwood, which someone from work told me about...Having a look at their designs they have some pretty incredibly nice ones, even a 5x2, presumably at half the price...and if transportable, maybe we could buy a cheap block in the country and move it on to that as a holiday house, when we can afford to upgrade...Then there are park homes (I've always wanted to be white trash and live in a trailer park...), etc, etc...so plenty of options if the loan amount is very small...
maybe a bit wild,mad, but its just a thought...not sure my wife Kathryn would be too keen, but then again sometimes desperate times calls for desperate solutions...not sure what the story is yet, until this incredibly slow process runs its course, have no idea (a) whether or not we would even get the loan, and (b) not sure how much they will allow us to have but assuming its somewhere between $260-310K...also by the time we might be ready to get approved, my circumstances may have made it impossible by then anyway...but enough doom or gloom, just have to exercise some fruits of the Holy Spirit as God describes in Galations 5:22-25; patience and faithfulness for starters...Just a few more ideas to keep the creativity and hope flowing...
Although the Peter Lees designs for example the D1 (5x2...151msquare second floor) with a groundfloor area of only 167m square still has to be a possible option if a suitable builder of this a-frame design can be found...
I can see his designs have been built in York,(south of Northam, north of Beverley) Western Australia, (page 29, CatB),Gerry & Dorothy at Kendenup,(near Stirling Ranges) Western Australia (page 24, channel 7 interview), Howatharra(between Northampton and Geraldton), Western Australia (catA, page 9)
Then there are timber homes like Cedar Homes for example...or stumped houses for example the Queenslander or the Getaway Loft...

Also picked up another REIWA mag to go with the one Kathryns Mum gave us the other day...the one I got had blocks in Armadale for $90,000-$100,000, but probably a terrible location...
But one thing in it I have set aside is a map of the whole metro (+ major country towns in WA) area showing average price for each suburb, for example one of the worst is Medina at an average price of $235K (and having read meters in this dump, I have to say I'd be happy never to go into this suburb ever again...worse than balga!, which actually does better than I expected with an average price of $325K, guess things are looking up a little in the New north...maybe thats why the Finks set up there...), looks like most expensive by far is peppy (peppermint) grove (which again I have read meters in remember vividly my experiences there too, for example reading Eileen Bonds house which is now for sale...) at a whopping average price of $5.1 million, next best I think is Dalkeith at $2.6 million (where I once scored a bottle of antipodes spring water which is sourced from a new zealand mountain or something, while reading a lovely ladies meter), of course when I was reading meters in Morley a can of coke was a treat on a hot day (average price $418 K on this months REIWA Map)...so what is the point of this? well it gives an idea what suburbs are highest in value now, and therefore looking at that which areas are going to be likely to increase in value therefore be half-decent locations to (a) live in and more importantly (b) fetch a good price in 10 years time...Important to avoid buying a block in a suburb that will be a dump in 10 years time...
Go HERE to see the REIWA median price map...on the REIWA page I came across a cool ad from Australian Central credit union, doubt they can do much for us, but then again....

Kathryn visits some display homes

Jacob and I (Kathryn) went to see a display home and really liked what we saw it was a Easystart home, the agent was nice and gave us prices of different house prices and designs. We also got pamphlets from Goodlife homes and Homebuyers Centre, would like jon to see them too, as it's hard to explain what we saw.

Initial thoughts, Who dares Wins, and Game on!

Kathryn and I (Jonathon) have been thinking very seriously about trying to buy our own house since at least 2008. There are many reasons for this desire/dream.

Here are some of the reasons we'd like to relegate renting a house to our past history instead of our present His story.

1.**The hassle of complying with rent inspections. Some landlords are better than others and our current one has been good so far, but can be a big hassle.
2.**The constant threat of having to deal with time-consuming and costly house moves on a yearly basis at least.
3.**The spiralling cost of rent. In one year we went from paying $230 a week to $355 a week.
Admittedly the place we are in now is a lot nicer, better place in a lovely new area, but the rise is indicative of the rental market in Perth at the moment, and it is ridiculously over-inflated, a bit like the price of groceries and petrol. When we first started renting in 2006 our rent was $185 a week. At present the average cost of renting in Perth is heading towards about $450 a week, which suggests the price of a mortgage should be cheaper, or at least similiar.
4.**the instability of moving often (as is likely to occur if we continue to rent) negatively impacting on our work and family life in a myriad of ways.
5.** If Jacob wants to do crayon drawings on his wall its not going to get us in trouble with the landlord, if we have trouble removing them. (hahaha or something like that...)
p.s. no it hasn't happened yet, but it could very soon I suspect...
p.s.s. and a host of similiar scenarios which any family deals with.

6.** the need for a settled home location if we are to have any more kids in years to come, in a house on land that is good enough to meet our needs and wants, e.g. can store all my junk and all Jacobs toys, is safe for our cats, and a place where we can grow vegetables like silver beet, carrots,corn, etc, etc, even have chooks if we want to without having to worry if its ok with the landlord.

7.** the need for Jacob to have a settled home by the time he goes to school.


There are heaps more good reasons but thats just a small sample of them.

Admittedly as the often sneering know-all "doomsayers" keep telling us, if we take on a mortgage and fail to make the payments, worst case scenario we could end up with nowhere to live and a massive debt, and in a very big financial mess. However thats also like saying if you drive a car you may end up dead and in a massive mangled mess. Which is very true, but its a risk most of us choose to take. Risks are part of life. As God, my parents, my ex-SAS racewalking coach, former Australian Cricket playerMike Whitney on his TV show by the same name, and others have often reminded us, sometimes; Who dares wins!

More and more I (Jonathon) am convinced that continuing to rent for many more years will be a bigger risk to our wellbeing than taking on the massive challenge of a mortgage that can work for us. So with that in mind, and with much prayer, and nervous anticipation (a bit like one often feels before a big race, an exam, or a job interview), for more than a year now I have been exploring ideas for getting our own house at a price and location that will work well for us. Kathryn and Jacob (just a little, although too young to comprehend much as far as I know) have shared in this experience in many ways. We have already looked over many house designs, visited blocks for sale, and talked endlessly about locations that might work for our family for years to come...

Of course the biggest hurdle though is getting someone to lend us enough money. It is step 1 to getting anywhere in this process. Something clearly spelt out to us when we had an interview at Homebuyers Centre in December 2008. Step 2 is to select a location and, step 3 is to select a house design. Oftentimes in this busy world, people do all 3 steps at once, or at least steps 2 and 3 together with a "house and land package". While I am open to the option of a house and land package, more and more I see the potential cost savings of doing all three steps independently. i.e. Get finance first, then choose location, then choose house design.
One of the reasons for this is that after reading Peter Lees book earlier this year, it seems the housing market is very one-dimensional in design, and could it be that this is more about profits for people in the building industry than about good houses, with excellent functions, and most of all at an ***affordable*** price.

Looking around extensively over the last few months it seems to me that a decent block of land is going to cost about $150,000-$300,000, and its becoming increasingly harder to find good land in a good location under $230,000. The best options I have found so far have been around the $170,000 mark, and I don't think we can pay any less if we want 500m square block in a good location.

Looking at advertised house designs the price seems to be around the $125,000-$150,000 mark for a 4x2 house. I have seen a number of designs for around the $130,000-$135,000 mark that would work for us. A few rare gems about the $115-$125,000 mark are also available. One company has advertised prices starting at $96,000 but I still have to phone them to check what they are offering for that price.

If I buy land at $175,000 and build a house for $125,000 that is a total cost of $300,000.

House and land packages are advertised at $230,000 to $350,000. In the areas that I'd consider living in, they are probably about $295,000+, as the cheaper ones are in crap locations, or are on cottage slumtype setups, or too small or something you cant live in for the next 10 years. Hoever if we can get the finance we may have to consider moving into one of the more outlying areas, as its starting to become more and more desparate to get out of the rental market...

So we need a loan for $300,000 to comfortably make the transition to paying a mortgage.
To get into a really good area, we need to borrow about $350,000.

As of 17th June 2009 the advice I got from a lender this week, is that the most we can get is $270,000.
I spoke to this same lending group a few months ago, and they advised me that I should be able to get $300,000. I mentioned this, and the telephonists response was "oh the price of living has gone up". Admittedly this is true, but it still seems a bit steep, a drop of $30,000 in borrowing capacity in about 3 months.

Assuming we get approved for $270,000 (no easy task, and a very emotionally draining, and time consuming task its starting to seem more and more), we are stuck with another down-sizing dilemma. Either we buy land $30,000 cheaper (i.e. $145,000 or less) or we build a cheaper house ($95,000 or less), or we wait another 6-12 months until our income is better, or give up on getting off the renting merry-go-round and carry on living week to week with throwing 70%+ of the money I am earning from my 60 hours a week in a day job and night job at the taxman, and the landlord, which seems like a terrible waste of the life God has blessed us with.

However maybe thats where the $21,000 + $10,000-$30,000 or so in extra goverment grants and/or housing group top-ups come in. To be honest i'm finding it alla bit confusing, but hopefully we will have enough to get over the line with a $100,000-$130,000 house on a $170,000 block, if we do I'll be ecstatic! I'm hoping that something like a peter lees design or something might help us to get the house price down to $90,000-$110,000, plus its double storey which could help with resale value down the track, and be more fun to live in. So I am hoping the Peter Lees designs might be the majic key to excellent housing under $100,000, preferably without us having to become owner/builders too much. But can't do anything until (a) we can borrow, and (b) I can find someone to build off Peter Lees plans at the price I want and do a good job of it. Am wary of going with a "bodgie builder, can we bodge it yes we can", for the sake of a cheaper price...
So hopefully after once we get approved I will understand things better, and we will have enough money to do this. Its going to be tight , but I am quietly confident God can, and will get us over the line...

After 3 years of working in casual (a major barrier to getting anyone to lend you money, so go fulltime or part-time if you can afford to) jobs with very few proper holidays, no sick leave or annual leave provisions, I (Jonathon) am getting tired and worn out. Kathryn is also tired and worn out from caring for Jacob for almost 2 years, with occasional help from Jacobs wonderful grandparents. We have been blessed with a good life in many ways, but a lot could improve.

The cars are getting older as are we, and the bills, and our untreated medical issues (teeth,shoulders,knees,ankles) seem to be increasing not decreasing. Thats life to some extent, i.e. everything runs down and falls apart, but doesnt mean we shouldn't try to slow the process down a bit.

One thought is that it seems that a lot of employers are keen on casual employees they can sack at a drop of a hat, instead of showing the commitment to their employees they expect in work performance. Is this a lose-lose situation for employee and employer, as it makes it so much harder to get a home loan in many ways, as the major banks are (perhaps understandably) not very interested in casual employees with no deposit money, even if they have been there longer than 6 months, and certainly not for $350,000...Some big positives in being casually employed is that you may be able to earn more, so increasing your borrowing capacity, and also it is easier to take time off sometimes, as not so much to lose, and plus easier to leave quicker, and you can reduce or increase your hours much easier...so maybe after all going casual is not so bad after all, if only the lenders would come to the party... Maybe Cash Converters should start offering home loans?
However a program from the Department of Housing called Keystart will consider casual employees if they have been there more than 6 months, and that looks to be the only option for us in 2009. Their big safeguard involves the shared equity scheme where the Government owns 20% of your house initially. The extension of the first homebuyers grant of $21,000 to September 2009 has kept that option open to us, as we could not enter the market until June (due to one of my jobs being less than 6 months old).
Unless there is a lender out there with less strict conditions. Have not found them yet.

Some people I have spoken with seem to think the $21,000 is a furphy and really only inflates the price of things by $21,000. Not sure whether to agree or disagree with them, but if it inceases how much we can borrow that is good, and we just have to find someone who hasn't inflated their price accordingly. Speaking to another person they suggest we should wait until prices drop further. But I am worried that the risk of (a) prices not dropping, or not dropping enough or (b) us losing our borrowing capacity (me losing my job, or my income dropping too much) is too big a one too ignore, especially with interest rates at their lowest in 50 years, and the prospect of unemployment increasing in 2010, making it (a) harder to pay rent/mortgage, and (b) get enough borrowing capacity.

Jumping through the hoops to get a borrower to lend you enough IMO has to be harder than actually paying mortgage payments from where I am coming from. Many would disagree with me on this, but their outlook/situation is probably very different. It was a bit like trying to get into university for me. I found it very hard, but once I got there it wasn't that hard to pass, although looking back I wonder if I should have studied harder, and most of all networked better. The way I look at it, there are 101 ways to deal with a mortgage payment, just like rent and bills, but there is only about 10 ways to get someone to lend to you.

The problem of paying rent and mortgage at the same time while building a house is a big one, although I think there are some ways to deal with it, for example Homebuyers Centre subsidising half your mortgage payment for the first 12 months, WAHC paying all of it at one stage?, or me doing some financial acrobatics with the loan to pay out our rent early, or some other way...not sure...but confident it can be dealt with...

There has to be a way out of this mess, and I am convinced it does not have to be a case of "out of the frying pan into the fire" by taking on a mortgage.

As Arnie says in a recent american car ad "You can do it!" hahaha...I'd like to think that attitude of unwavering confidence in the face of towering waves of uncertainty is what we need, Kathryn and I "can do it" if God helps us...

So it is with thoughts like these that Kathryn and I have started this blog, to help improve our sanity, and figure out good ways forward, which will hopefully help others in similiar struggles, and be a testimony to Gods provision.